With a great head toss, a twinkling soprano, and a lot of sparkles, Johnson is changing that. “We can show in art that people of color can be the leading characters, not the best friend,” she says. “People who are not an airbrushed version of beauty—not only those people get to find love. Then maybe we won’t be so judgmental of each other in real life because we’ll see, ‘Oh! These people are the leading characters in their lives too! They’re not just accessories in my life.’”

Johnson has performed on Broadway stages, she’s worked as a swing, an understudy, and a standby, and now she’s smashing through boundaries. She’s nobody’s accessory. She joined Glamour for a round of Doing the Work to share how she got from endless audition lines to Glinda’s towering bubble.

My childhood dream 

I wanted to be Mariah Carey. Also, I wanted to be a mechanical engineer.

My first job

I worked as an administrative assistant at my high school during the summers. I would take summer school classes and work. I took my job very seriously, and I was very good at it—I’m very organized.

One thing I’m a perfectionist about

Everything, until I realized that you can’t be. I am a planner. I thrive when I know that things are organized and I have my lists that I can check off. And then life happens to you and you’re like, “Oh! None of that matters.” I still like to know what the plan is, but I’m learning to be more spontaneous as I get older.

The most misunderstood thing about my job 

People think that this is an easy job! They think that it’s easy to get this job, and it’s something that you just kind of do for fun on the side. [Laughs.] It’s not that! It takes a lot, a lot, a lot of training and sacrifice. And it is so hard to get a job because there’s so many people that want to do this. Any time that you book anything, it’s cause for celebration. We make it look easy—it’s not easy.

A piece of professional advice that has stuck with me

My first job out of college, I worked with a lot of—I say older actors, but I’m their age now. What I learned from them was the importance of prioritizing your life, not just your career. Because time moves so fast—I’m really noticing it now. I’ve been a working actor in this business for a decade now. In this industry there is a lot that we sacrifice because of the schedule. People come to watch us do our job on holidays, which means we’re not with our families. That’s something that has been really tough for me. I learned from them to really think about the kind of life I wanted to have and to include my career in that but to try not to make the career your full life. And I haven’t always taken that advice—I haven’t always been able to.

The people who taught me to set boundaries

My mom. And my therapist. And myself. Learning what I will and won’t accept, what kind of energy I want to accept in my life, has taught me that I have to have boundaries. But therapy is a big help! I recommend it.

How I deal with disappointment

I feel it. The first thing I do when I’m disappointed is I let myself feel it and grieve it. I let myself have an entire experience around it so I can close the circle off and move forward. I used to—if I didn’t book a job, I would sit in it. “What should you have done differently? This is why it’s your fault!” That wasn’t helpful. It would make me sit in this disappointment of myself for weeks after, and then it would start affecting other things. So now when something bad happens…first of all, there is always a pint of ice cream in my freezer, but also, I let myself experience the full breadth of it. And then I’ll move on. But you can’t really do that unless you experience all of it.

Advice I wish I could give my younger self

Stop taking yourself so seriously! It is not that big a deal! Everything that you think is a big deal is not a big deal! [Laughs.] It’s just life! Go on that trip! Live! Live a little bit, Britt! You’re not going to regret having experiences.

My favorite thing about my job

I have so many favorite things. My very favorite thing, though, is when I get to see firsthand how it’s affecting other people. The great thing about the theater is that everybody is having that experience at the same time. It’s different than the movies. We’re all having the experience at the same time. If somebody finds something funny and they’re cracking up, other people are going to hear it. That’s so special.

My workday essentials 

I have a couple of rituals. I do a mini yoga workout beforehand. There’s a song that I have to hear and dance a little bit with my dressers and my hair people before I go on. It’s become a tradition; we always listen to “Dancing in the Moonlight.” It gets me pumped up and makes me happy.

Sade Lythcott was never supposed to be in theater, or, at least, she never wanted to be.

She grew up around Black art and live performance thanks to her mother, Dr. Barbara Ann Teer, the founder of the National Black Theatre, in Harlem. As is the case with the children of most entrepreneurs, Lythcott’s place was laid out before her, but also like the children of those same entrepreneurs, she didn’t want to follow it. Instead she started her career in fashion in high school, later moving on to broadcasting post-college, only to switch back to fashion

“My mother would famously say my and my brother’s whole life, ‘I don’t know why I worked so hard. It’s not like you two are going to do anything with it,’” she jokes over Zoom. 

Lythcott began her stint at the National Black Theatre as a costume designer, and after trying her hand at acting and realizing that “theater wasn’t really my thing,” it seemed she would have abandoned the profession altogether had her mother not unexpectedly passed away in 2008. 

“I never got to ask my mom, like, ‘How would you do this?’ Like, ‘What advice would you give me,’ which, you know, in some ways magnified my grief by having to mourn my mother while trying to fill her shoes,” she says. 

During her mother’s funeral—an opulent homegoing as rich and vibrant as the woman they were celebrating—Maya Angelou, the great poet to some and “Auntie Maya” to Lythcott, wrote a poem about the late Dr. Teer and her legacy, one that was practically unclockable. 

“She literally wrote, like, the shortest stanza that basically said, like, no one should follow in her footsteps, that no one did it better,” Lythcott says. “And here I am, like, sitting in this funeral seat, listening to Maya Angelou’s words, being like, Don’t do what you’re about to try to do.”

In the years that followed, Lythcott felt like she was working in the shadow of her late mother, understandably so. But it wasn’t until Lyrics From Lockdown, by Bryonn Bain—a piece she fully chose, executive-produced, and put on as the CEO of the National Black Theatre—that she came into her own. 

“That was the moment where the power of art and activism became so clear for me as not only a calling,” she says, “but I saw myself as being a change agent, and that made me feel successful.”  

And while advice from the late Angelou once got in her head, it wasn’t until she revisited the piece years later that she realized her ancestors gave her the keys to her own leadership and freedom to propel her further into her vision for a new era for the National Black Theatre, one expanding with a new physical space in 2024.

Below, we caught up with Sade Lythcott to learn how she does the work of promoting and elevating Black arts, culture, and history every day, whether it be from the stage wings or a makeshift desk at home. 

My average morning

I spend the morning with my son Thelonious—getting him ready for school, breakfast, pack his lunch and have him out the door. After he leaves for school, I get 20 to 30 of that time to meditate, and then the meetings start. I’m in back-to-back meetings 10 to 12 hours a day, that usually start around 8:30 a.m. or 9 and then go into the evening, but my mornings are so sacred to me because I get that time with my son. I also try to carve out a little bit time for my own centering and self-care.

My favorite part about my job

One of the reasons why I loved working in television as a producer was because it was a live show. Every day was something very new every day. And so, I will say, what is the most rewarding about my day is how diverse it is—National Black Theatre supports so many different kinds of artists, and we have a capital project going on, sectorwide advocacy between developing and producing new works and incredible Black artists. There’s also the part where I get to teach and guest-lecture at universities. So every day I try not to look at what is on my schedule until the end of the day before, so it’s like Christmas. 

How I fight back against the patriarchy

The patriarchy is real, and the world orientates around a very colonial lens that permeates all things, but I was raised in such an incredible environment that really prioritized self-determination and prioritizes the role of Black liberation as a vehicle to autonomy and freedom. So I will say, I’ve worked in environments where I have felt marginalized. I have worked in environments where it was clear that my voice wasn’t as valued as someone else’s at the table, but none of it has ever really fazed me because I walk into rooms with this deep faith of who I am. I never feel like I’m walking into a room or intimidated by a room if I’m the only one that looks like me, because the way I was raised, I’m always walking into the room powered by my ancestors. I just don’t value a lens that doesn’t value me, and therefore I don’t invest in even participating in that space. 

My favorite low-stakes treat after a productive day

In the summer it’s an ice-cold glass of white wine like Grüner or rosé and in the winter a full-bodied red. Something about that glass of wine at the end of the day really punctuates that my day is completed. 

My go-to thank you gift

I really love to support Black businesses, and there’s so many talented Black florist and floral artists. I feel like Black folks just do stuff with more soul, so sending flowers from these small black businesses to people who perhaps never have seen flowers done with that spin, it awakens people to not only the gratitude I have for them, but also introduces them to new artists. The Studio Museum and the National Black Theatre’s gift shops also are great—NBT relaunched its Black Joy tote bags, and that’s my go-to gift now. 

A theater production that inspired me 

We produced the world premiere of Kill Move Paradise by James Ijames, a New York Times critic’s pick, and it transformed our space. James wrote this gorgeous play—about those boys’ humanity and what happens to their soul after it’s ripped from this earthly plane and that they’re still just boys but in purgatory. Folks don’t often hear the narrative around these atrocities. They see the activism of Black Lives Matter, but what they don’t see is the impact of this trauma porn on our communities specifically—that these men and boys and girls become these martyrs but what actually happens to their life and their legacy outside of the movement. That humanizing of tragedy, that giving back to them and to us as community, to our young people as people and not with this labor of pushing the movement forward, will always stand out in my mind. 

What I wear during rehearsals

You have to master the art of an elastic waistband, a lip, and patterns. You could be in sweats, but if it’s like a pattern on pattern on pattern, it creates like this ’fit where you might be in your pajamas, but it’s the most interesting look. 

The Instagram Stories I never skip

I love Cleo Wade‘s writing—full transparency, she’s a NBT board member—but I always get something from her feed. Also, I will say, Nap Ministry is my ministry. I wake up to NBT‘s morning affirmations, and I take my glass of wine in the evening with the Nap Ministry. But if you want something dishy, I’m always checking out The Shade Room too.  

People would be happier at work if…

They took the time to breathe deeply, and consciously access their joy.

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But then I realized after a lot of hiring and training that what I want out of a boss is someone teaching me, but that’s also what I want out of my employees in the kitchen. Every single person that I’ve brought in has done it better or knows what they’re doing [more] than me, because I’m also learning. I want the best. So if someone is better than me, I’m like, “I’m hiring you.” I don’t know what I would do without my kitchen manager in New York. I was able to come to L.A. because Stephanie runs [the New York store]. I trust that the production and the quality and everything is to the standard. Good people become family in a company, and that’s how I feel about most of my employees.

The financial advice I swear by

Save money and invest in your future. Anytime that we have extra money, I put it back in myself. I invest in myself and Flour Shop so that it can grow. Investing in yourself is important.

How I manage anxiety

I’m most anxious when I don’t have something to do. The busier I am, the more focused I am on each individual task because I just have to get it done. There’s no choice. But when I am anxious, I usually deal with it by cooking. During COVID, I cooked more than I had ever cooked in my entire life because I had the time. I had to find things to keep me busy, like, “What is the longest salsa recipe I’ve never made because it takes forever?” And puzzles. Oh my God, I love, love, love puzzles. I have just as many puzzles as I do clothes with sequins.

How I reward myself after a good work day

If I’m in New York, it’s Prince Street Pizza. If I’m in L.A., it’s a glazed doughnut from SK Donuts. I’m such a sprinkle doughnut or glazed doughnut type girl. Pre-COVID I was going to New York twice a month. And then right now, not that much, but I’m hoping to get back. I mean, I miss the pizza. 

How I reward myself after a stressful day

I instantly go to my daughter because her laughter and joy of not knowing what’s going on just reminds me what is important, and family is that for me. And ice cream never hurts. Unless you get a brain freeze.

My go-to desk snack

I stock mini KitKats in my freezer. I love cold chocolate. I have this crazy pantry, and it usually has Kettle jalapeño chips or sesame sticks or cashews or anything salty in it. But I always need something sweet in between. I’m constantly tasting a new chocolate cake, a new chocolate, a new ice cream, a new something. It just feels like part of my job. But at my desk I love Hot Cheetos.

My go-to thank you gift

Cake or flowers. In New York I use Popupflorist, and in Los Angeles I use Empty Vase for flowers. But usually it’s cake.

My go-to email sign-off

“Sprinkles and smiles.” Every email. And everyone in my company does it now too. I never even told anyone to do it. It just happened naturally.

My mantra

I have a quote in my book on a giant page that says, “Make the mess.” It just means, let loose, be creative, make the mess. I know that’s specific to a kitchen, but I believe in that in life too. It’s okay. Try things. Go for it. Make the mess, and you can clean it up. As long as you’re still working toward a goal, I think that that’s just a really cool thing. And the back of my book has my favorite quote which says, “A woman’s place is in the kitchen…of a company she built from scratch.”

Jessica Radloff is the Glamour West Coast editor. You can follow her and see what happened the first time she cut open a Flour Shop cake—which is now her favorite—on her Instagram @jessicaradloff14.

For Glamour’s Doing the Work column, Stacey Abrams talks candidly about her daily routine, competitive edge, the advice that has shaped her career, and the people who have been there for every setback and success.

An average morning

My first action should be going down to the gym or going downstairs to get on my treadmill. But although my intention is to wake up and immediately put on my workout clothes, I shockingly (sarcasm) find myself instead scrolling through my news feed. I have three newsletters that I subscribe to that give me my international news, my national news, and my entertainment news. And then once I’ve gotten that done then I go and exercise

A useful piece of advice I’d would give my younger self

Humiliation isn’t permanent. The internet is forever, but the pain isn’t.

The women in your circle who helped me get here

My mom and my sisters are the ones that immediately come to mind. In part because I don’t measure my capacity against others. I measure it against what I can imagine for myself. And it’s helpful to have a family, especially with so many women in my family, who can help me remember what I thought I said because we have a capacity for revisionist history in our own minds and they are excellent recorders of what I thought I said and what I actually said and what I actually intended.

The people who encouraged my creativity

My parents did, absolutely, in different ways. They are both multifaceted, but what resonates for me is that my parents never told me—not that they didn’t tell me “no,” but when I said I wanted to learn or wanted to do, there was never this chiding that, well, “that’s not for you.” It was okay. And probably having a research librarian for a mother contributed to that because when you would ask a question, she would say, “Go look it up.” And she meant it. So I ended up reading the dictionary and reading encyclopedias for fun and just entering these new worlds. Because of that, I was never constrained by this idea that I could only be or do or think one thing. There was a whole universe, a literal library of opportunities, and we were encouraged to explore it.

My role models in politics

I frame it this way: I look for people who try to achieve hard things, stumble, and are intentional about self-correction. And I spend a lot of time reading about those who make mistakes and those who didn’t do it right. Because I think you learn as much from the wrongs that are done as you do from the heroic stories of right.

Where I get my competitive edge

What I publicly displayed in the last few years is something I learned and something I talk about in my book. And that is that one, for me, it wasn’t about the competition. Even in politics, it’s not about the thrill of competition. It’s about wanting to be a part of the thing. Stacey, the little Stacey, loves words. And this was an opportunity to love words in a different way. It just happened to be on a stage where you got a trophy or a ribbon if you got it right. And not to diminish the competition, but competition is both more fulfilling and you can be more resilient if you love the underlying mission. She loved words first, not competing first. 

While Pappas originally thought she would become a veterinarian, getting her first computer when she was 12 years old changed everything. “It opened up a whole new world for me. I remember playing games with people from different parts of the world. It just completely blew my mind,” she says. “That was a moment when I recognized the power of technology and realized it was something I wanted to be a part of.”

And TikTok is certainly where it’s at. Going forward, Pappas says, the company will continue to go big, especially when it comes to “live usage and consumption.” She also mentions investing and exploring the e-commerce marketplace…but staying true to TikTok’s mission of inspiring creativity and bringing joy to consumers will always come first. 

So how does Pappas inspire her own team, and what is the most misunderstood aspect of her job? For Glamour’s latest edition of Doing the Work, she reveals all that and more.

How I define what it means to be a good boss

A good boss really empowers you to do your best work and supports you in your endeavors. That’s something that I strive to do and enable my teams to do. When I look back at the bosses I’ve had and the mentors I’ve had, that’s one of the common themes.

What bosses need to do better

A bad boss is someone who doesn’t enable their team by micromanaging and doesn’t give them the freedom to do their best work. Maybe more subtle is: leaders who are not able to clearly communicate so you never know where you stand. Are you doing well? Are you not doing well? That should never come as a surprise. Having really clear communication from your leader is critical.

The most misunderstood aspect of my job

I would love to know what people think about this role. You know, a title like chief operating officer can feel really broad or just not specific in terms of what your day-to-day looks like. There are so many things that I will do in any one particular day, whether that is reviewing an upcoming product launch that we have for our creators or giving feedback on the creative for an ad campaign that we have or thinking through our latest safety policies. It really is broadened. But I’m keenly focused on how we’re fostering an enjoyable, safe, and inclusive community in everything that we’re doing. Everything that I prioritize is focused on that.

My favorite part of my job

It really is seeing the positive impact that we had had on our community. A woman from Australia, who was an agoraphobic, posted a video talking about how she was really struggling through the pandemic and she got on TikTok and she found her community. She went down the rabbit hole of a green thumb TikTok about how to garden and transformed her space. She had plants growing everywhere and saw this community supporting her on TikTok as she was sharing everything. It really gave her a sense of confidence to get out there more and changed her outlook on life. So if I’m at my local cafe talking to a waiter or in a business meeting and my business partner says, “My family member’s life has changed,” in terms of getting on TikTok, knowing that you’re putting smiles on people’s faces is just an incredible feeling. That to me is my number one thing that inspires me.

The one area I’m a perfectionist about

My schedule. I am a ruthless organizer in keeping my calendar, and the reason behind that is because I want to make sure I’m prioritizing the right things. I set weekly priority meetings. I look at what are the business objectives, what am I trying to achieve this week, and is my time and the commitments that I’ve made in line with what I’m trying to accomplish? I also do that to ensure that I have a good work-life balance. I’m very particular about making sure that I’m blocking time off for my family.

How I prioritize my personal life

A lot of it is just owning your calendar. I will block family time because that is precious time that I’ve set aside and cannot schedule over it. Obviously, if there’s something urgent that needs attending, then that’s a conversation I’ll have. I’ll tell my wife, “Tonight I’m not going to be at the dinner table, but here’s what I’m going to do instead.” It’s really getting a sense of balance in that regard and making sure I’m still finding ways to prioritize family moments. That’s why it’s so important taking my kids to school in the morning and having dinner with them in the evening.

My unique desk snack

I don’t snack too much during the day, but my go-to snack would be Vegemite on toast, which is an Australian snack. It’s an acquired taste, that’s for sure. I don’t think many Americans would take to it as well. It’s very salty. You have to look for international food markets that carry it.

The gift I love to give 

I love getting people gourmet food baskets. If I can find one from a local gourmet store that I can send, I love that, particularly for folks who are new parents. People are always getting baby gifts when they welcome a child, but people forget about the parents. In those first few weeks, your whole world has been turned upside down and you’re not one to be cooking meals for yourself. Getting a gourmet food basket, whether you’ve just closed a deal, had an amazing milestone in your work or in school or in life, or had a baby, that’s my go-to. People love food!

My standard greeting or goodbye 

We don’t send too many emails at work, but I’ll usually say “Cheers,” which is not a very American, or common, thing to do. Otherwise we have our own internal communications tool, like Slack, so we sign off with emojis all the time, like little smiling faces or fist bumps or the power arm. I love the fist bump.

How I celebrate after a productive day at work

A nice glass of wine. If I’m wanting to be a little bit more decadent, I make a spiced hot chocolate with cayenne pepper and maple syrup. It’s great.

My stress reliever after a tough day

Watching TikToks! It really is my go-to for decompressing at the end of the day because I know it will make me smile. And spending time with family, honestly. Nothing resets my day like spending time with my three-year-old, my five-year-old, and my wife. Every now and then we’ll change it up and either go for an evening walk by the beach and watch the sunset, or we’ll grab some musical instruments and run around the house and make a ton of noise, which I’m sure our neighbors love. Anything like that just breaks up the day.

How I deal with disappointment

My mom taught me early on—and my wife says this too—is to imagine a year from now if that thing that you’re worried about at this moment is going to feel the same. Are you going to have the same sense of attachment to it? Does it really matter at the end of the day? And more often than not, in the grand scheme of things, these aren’t things that are really going to change the situation dramatically. It makes it a lot easier to put it into perspective. 

The advice I wish I could give my younger self

Don’t be afraid to take risks, because you can always be back to where you were, if you hadn’t changed anything. Don’t worry so much about what people will think or what the expectations are. Because at the end of the day, it’s just you judging yourself and how you’re faring in that moment. Don’t give yourself such a hard time and be a lot more open to try things out. I think it always ends up working out for the best.

What I miss most about being in the office

We’re all missing that real-world experience of getting to see one another in person. Having that connection changes things so radically. I think people would be happier at work if you could humanize the other person’s perspective, understand where they’re coming from, and find that sense of connection. That camaraderie and really embracing more opportunity to have those moments to come together—that’s what I really look forward to.

What TikTok made me purchase

One of our most popular hashtags is #TikTokMadeMeBuyIt. Dry-erase notepads was a fun one for me. There’s this self-cleaning water bottle that I use. A lot of it is home office supplies.

The home appliance that makes my work day better

My big pandemic purchase was buying an espresso machine at home. Can’t live without it. It’s called the Appartamento.

Jessica Radloff is the Glamour West Coast editor. You can follow her on Instagram at @jessicaradloff14. She is not on TikTok yet, but has promised Pappas she will join before the end of the year.

Sarah Jakes Roberts is a wild woman. Not wild in the traditional sense, exactly, but a woman that is confident that she can master everything she takes on. She’s so confident, in fact, that the businesswoman, pastor, motivational speaker, and bestselling author has named the final chapter in her latest book, Woman Evolve: Break Up with Your Fears and Revolutionize Your Life, “Wild Woman.”

“It was important to me that “Wild Woman” is how we end the book,” says Roberts. “Because it’s my call for us women to think about our lives and careers as a series of dreams realized, that doesn’t end with the first dream.” A term that fights the very skewed narrative about womanhood—a Wild Woman simply doesn’t choose. She can have the children, climb the ladder, and launch her business. “And wild because at the end of the day, sis, you can be incredible in the boardroom and need a therapist for your toxic relationship,” says Roberts. That is to say—we can have all things together on one side and still be a work in progress on the other.

Inspired by an in-depth look at the infamous Biblical Eve and her journey in the wilderness, Robert takes readers into a fresh perspective—revealing Eve in a light not often depicted in religious spaces. A character so often vilified in history, many fail to remember that Eve’s moment in that garden is only a portion of her story. It’s not the fullness of her story. “I needed to tell Eve’s story because Eve’s story is my story,” reads an excerpt in her book. “And we’ve all got some Eve in us,” says Roberts. You know, those “oops” moments where we knew better but didn’t exactly do better. 

Roberts’ pride in seeing women live out their fullest potential has led her to her life’s work. The very reason she calls her book and the larger movement, Woman Evolve. ”If you’re ready to dig into this with me, and I hope that you are, you’ll need to access the parts of you that you don’t often take the time to explore,” says Roberts to her readers. So, for Glamour‘s latest edition of Doing the Work, Roberts is redefining how we look at self care by introducing soul care into the mix. 

A useful piece of advice she’d give her younger self:

Speak up. I received a lot of projections from other people about who they thought I would be or what they thought I could do. So much so that when I felt like I couldn’t live up to that projection, I quit altogether, instead of recognizing that what they were having is a conversation, not a declaration​—that I had the opportunity to say, “I can see why you think that about me, but I feel like I would be better in this space.”

Women who helped gauge her potential:

As a teen mom, I had three idols: Whoopi Goldberg, who had a child as a teenager, Oprah Winfrey, and then [media tycoon] Cathy Hughes. In them, I saw that you could be successful as a Black woman after having a child. But as a woman of faith, I didn’t see anything that allowed my faith to be mirrored in that success. I questioned if both could live in the same space. And I spent a long time feeling like they can’t.

The piece of professional advice that’s always stuck with her: 

Brené Brown always asks the question, “What’s a piece of advice you’ve been given that’s so bad you need to warn others?” And a piece of advice that I received that I actually didn’t listen to, and I’m glad I didn’t, is to give the people what they want. So go wild. Be crazy. Don’t try and fit in a box, anyone’s box. The faith box, the culture box, the corporate box. Don’t worry about the box, be you. Sweet and spicy or sweet and sour. Do and be all of the things and then fall in love with the fact that you’re free enough to live in this space that is uncultivated because it’s fit just for you.

I build all these experiences at Pinterest with all the teams that I work with, and sometimes I’m like, “Do people really love that?” and we received this incredible letter, a really thoughtful note from someone who had seen this experience, and how it impacted their life. That was one of those moments where I was like, “Wow, we’re doing this. We can really build experiences that change people online.” That meant so much to me and to the team of getting this personal letter. This person didn’t have to do that. They just, like, googled our address, wrote a handwritten note, and sent it to the team. And that was like: I can make a career out of this thing.

I was also eight months pregnant at the time, so I was very emotional about the whole thing. But I was like, “Wow, I can be a mom, and I can do this.”

How do you typically deal with rejection at work?

I think that breaking down rejection into the bits and pieces of what you’re looking for can really help to reframe your perspective, to help you achieve what you want, without it being kind of this gargantuan scary thing that’s happening to you in your life. How can you think about getting those opportunities in different places, or finding people to help you get those skills? For me, figuring out what skills I may need to build on can be a really interesting and fun learning opportunity, rather than an idea of rejection. I truly believe that everything happens for a reason, and you can learn from everything that happens in your life.

What’s the best piece of career advice you’ve personally received?

I remember struggling a lot with how to lead. I was telling my manager how I was trying to do things like someone else, and he said to me, “Annie, why don’t you just try to lead as yourself? Why don’t you think about leading using your own strengths and what you’re good at?” That really changed things quite a bit for me, because I struggled to be super confident and assertive in meetings. I am the kind of person that really leads through building relationships and connections. The fact that someone gave me the space and advice to really think that through, that I as a unique human being could lead a little bit differently, has really helped me in my career and in a lot of ways.

I use it a lot now, in my day-to-day as I mentor women and BIPOC folks within Pinterest. That’s like a passion of mine. How might I really help other people like me succeed in places like Pinterest, where we may not always feel super represented? We have to take that on for ourselves in a lot of ways, and no one’s going to fight for us if we don’t fight for ourselves.

What’s your biggest at-work challenge?

My biggest workplace challenge is balancing it all. As a mother, as a partner, as a woman, I feel like there is a lot of pressure to take on everything. I have grown up with a very specific mentality, being the daughter of immigrants: You work hard. You support your family. And I think that my biggest challenge has been figuring out: How do I balance the work side of things? How do I be there for my family and how do I be there for myself?

One of my greatest lessons learned about this last year and becoming a mom—really doing it remotely with not a lot of help—was that by taking time for myself, that 20 minutes in the morning that we’re talking about, I’m actually better at everything else, by setting that boundary. I’m a better person, I’m happier, I’m healthier. I figured out something that works for me and it gives me a break. And I don’t have to give 130% to everything I do every second of the day. Because if I give a little bit more to myself, I can be there a little bit more for everybody else.

After a successful, productive day, what’s your favorite low-stakes treat?

Ice cream. Anything that has salted caramel in it.

If you weren’t in your current career, what would you be?

I love fashion. I think I’d be a creative director at a fashion brand.

Annie Ta’s Workday Essentials

Norma Kamali has earned a permanent place in fashion history. The 75-year-old created the legendary sleeping bag coat. She designed jeans for Studio 54. That famous Farrah Fawcett pinup look with the giant hair and red swimsuit? That’s a Norma Kamali suit. Kamali is literally in a museum—her designs are housed in the Met and the Smithsonian.

Other famous designers might spend their eighth decade waxing about the good old days, watching the lifetime achievement awards roll in. Not Kamali. She accepts the awards, but she also created a genderfluid line. She prides herself on hiring diverse models, including featuring older models with natural silver hair. She centers sustainability. Kamali’s early works are already considered classics, but she stays relevant—JLo and Lizzo have both been seen in Norma Kamali in recent months.

“The idea of democratic and inclusive means that my clothes should be accessible to women of all ages, which they are, and should be available to all genders, which they are too,” says Kamali, with the same certitude other 75-year-olds use to discuss parking tickets. “Clothing should be for everyone,” she says. “It should make everyone feel good.”

Kamali gets a lot of praise for appearing so young. She can put her leg over her head, and in her new book, I Am Invincible, she has plenty to say about diet and skincare. But she’s perfectly clear that her secret to feeling young is: stick to your values but keep evolving. “I realized early on that my purpose is first and foremost to have a creative life and to service women,” she tells Glamour. “In my 70s, I’m becoming more relevant to my purpose than I ever was before.”

Kamali’s work has always been about women’s empowerment, long before it became a slick corporate catchphrase. For Glamour’s Doing the Work column, she spilled secrets from eight decades of living to the hilt and dressing for success.

How I learned to set boundaries

Well, I’m 75 so I’ve had many years more than you do to figure out what works and what doesn’t! I wasn’t born this way; it took a lot of time to figure out some of this stuff, and I’m still figuring out things. The answer, really, is: it’s a process. As long as you’re consciously committed to solutions and to improving and transitioning your life and your mind and your spirit, it’ll happen at the pace it’s supposed to happen for you. I’m still trying to figure life out. But I probably have more things solved than you do, simply because I’m older than you are and I’ve had a chance to make more mistakes and corrections.

How I treat myself after a good day

I don’t really treat myself in that way. That’s not part of my routine. If I have a really good day the endorphins and the serotonin is working and it inspires me to think of more new things because I feel confident, I feel good about myself. So I’m rewarded with feeling like an idea I had that I wasn’t sure about might be something that I’ll pursue.

How I treat myself after a bad day

I either try to get a massage or acupuncture or do more mediation, and work out, work out, work out. I go to any of those or all of the above if I have to! That’s an expression of self love for me, balancing out some of the negativity, the pain, the sorrow of loss. We don’t do that enough—just stop and break the cycle of anxiety with something that’s going to calm you, give you a little break. Working out could just mean walking up and down a flight of stairs a couple of times, just to get the endorphins going, get the serotonin going, the healthy drugs.

A time that I crushed it at work

I’ve had a lot of successes. I’ve had a lot of different kinds of success. And some of the obvious ones that everybody knows about probably didn’t feel as good as some of the ones that no one knew about, like maybe I make a pattern that was very tricky and difficult, and I do it in an incredibly professional way. That’s a self-esteem award. The rewards are so helpful, especially to a young designer, the reward can bring confidence—maybe you’re not sure you can pay the rent, but you realize you should continue with this. But life goes up and down, up and down. When things are going really well, that’s the time to go on high alert to prepare not to have a big swoop down. You have to figure out how to maintain a level. It takes a lot of thought and processing to anticipate the good and the bad and the ups and downs.

My morning routine

I like routines. They’re very grounding, especially for someone like me who has a personality that thrives on change and disruption. A morning and night routine anchor whatever chaos I create in a day. I do take my time in the morning. I wake up super early, sometimes 4:30 or 5 o’clock. I’m working by 6:30, but I have time to meditate, I have time to be slow. I make my bed, feed my dog, put on the tea—I do things in a methodical way. I do an active meditation every morning that’s become so helpful for me through COVID. An active meditation in the morning gets your blood flowing, it gets your mind your body going, but at a nice pace. You’re not going from zero to traffic. It helps you transition into the day.

How I deal with disappointment

It’s a process as you mature. The first time you have a disappointment, it’s very profound because it’s the first time as an adult that you understand—mommy and daddy aren’t going to help you, and real life is a bitch. But as you have more of those experiences you learn: when you get knocked down, get up quick. Yes, cry! Yes, feel shitty! But don’t let it go on for days because now you’ve entered a dark zone and it’s really hard to get out of it. Meditation is extremely helpful in giving you a positive attitude when you get up in the morning, no matter how horrible the day before was. If you can have a positive attitude you’re not as fearful. You’re still afraid, but there’s hope. Every human being who can hope has a chance for resurrecting.

My dream job as a child

I wanted to be a painter. Michelangelo was everything for me. If you saw my room as a teenager, the walls were covered with anything Michelangelo. I was studying anatomy at a young age, and I just thought the human form was so fantastic—the movement between the muscles and the bones, and the skin over the bones, the gestures and the hands and the expressions on the face—that was very compelling for me. My mother brought to my attention that she did not think that was going to pay the rent, and that she did not see herself paying my rent as an adult. I got the message. Fortunately I got some scholarship and some painting grants. My painting helped me get through college, and I ended up taking the fashion illustration major at FIT.

My first actual job

I hated fashion [in the early 60s] because it was Mad Men fashion—it was very unlike my personality. Corsets, garter belts, girdles, stockings, matching hats, shoes—I didn’t fit it. I appreciated it later on, but at the time it was just too constricting for me. And so my first job interview in the fashion industry was devastating. It was one fraught with objectification. I remember running out of the office crying and deciding to look in the New York Times where you could find jobs, and there was an opening to work in the office of an airline. I don’t know how I got the job because I still type with two fingers today, but I got it, and I was able to travel every weekend round trip to London for $29. It was London at the very, very, very beginning of what would be called the revolution. It had such an impact on my thinking. I related 100% to the fashion, to the music, and the art and the films. As a Baby Boomer, I was with my people! Everything I do now is as a result of the seed that was planted at that time.

My stance on perfectionism

I’m a perfectionist and I take pride in it. For a long period of time, being a perfectionist was a criticism. But I believe in trying to reach excellence. It’s very hard to do it but the harder you try to get there, the closer you can get to it. Very rarely can you get to it, but it teaches you what you’re capable of doing. Anything that’s not easy to attain is worth having because to get it, you have to rise to the occasion. We’re never going to be perfect, that’s the part you also have to have in your head. If you’re not perfect, you’re human. But perfection should be part of the conversation.

What people don’t understand about my job

It is a dream job because it’s a creative job, and if you’re a creative person it’s extremely fulfilling. Every time you do a collection it’s very addictive because you want to do the next one. What most people don’t realize is—the commitment is huge. It’s an enormous commitment in time, in personal energy, it’s all-encompassing.

The best money advice I’ve ever gotten

It’s really important to know about business and the economy. I chose to be the sole owner of my company which means I’ve reinvested my money in my company throughout my career. For me it meant freedom to make decisions and not have to design by committee or get approval from business people who maybe understood the business side of it but not the essence of the creative and the essence of what people need at that moment in time. I decided to try to do both.

My go-to hostess gift

Olive oil. I make products with olive oil, I sell olive oil, I have an olive oil that’s a special blend just for my company. Olive oil is a gift that everyone can enjoy, and it’s a product that has been part of our global history for centuries. I’m in love with it, so I love sharing it.

How I found my path

Early on in my career, I had a moment of thinking “What am I doing? People are finding cures for cancer, and I’m worried about an inch on a hem length. Is what I’m doing worthwhile?” I was very serious about how conflicted I was about my career choice. And then I decided to start to really pay attention, and I realized that clothing—not just my clothing but every designer’s clothing—really impacts many life experiences. When you meet the person you’re going to marry, or when you’re having a special occasion, a wedding or whatever it is, what you wore is part of the sensory experience. I started thinking [about my work] how I relate to music—music accents a moment in time. Any moment that was meaningful to me, sound was so much a part of it.

My workday essentials

I have green tea in the morning and then I have ginger and lemon throughout the day. I make them myself, and if I’m gonna be traveling or not able to do it at home there are a lot of those little bottles of detox of ginger lemon, and I buy those and keep them in the fridge here at work and put half a bottle into a cup of hot water. I use my reusable Starbucks cup every day. I bought everybody in the company so we could stop throwing away paper cups. 

I use an iPad for everything else, but I have a little notepad to sketch things. I tried sketching on my computer but I just love the paper under my hand. I travel light because when i’m at work I’m in the sample room, the sales room, the studio room—we have five floors. I like the Moleskin books—a typical Moleskin will last me a week. I have them filed for a certain amount of time and i can refer to them if I’m looking for notes or sketches, and then when a season’s over I throw them away. I use felt-tip pens a lot, they’re easy to fill in shades, and these are usually quick types of sketches, so I can cover a lot with a thicker pen like that. 

Jenny Singer is a staff writer for Glamour. You can follow her on Twitter. 

Jessica Yellin is an early riser, starting her days at 6:30 a.m. and spending hours reading through news sites. Even after an award-winning career at news outlets like CNN, she knows just how overwhelming the world can be, and how frustrating it is to internalize news in a meaningful way.   

If you’re looking to stop doomscrolling, look no further than Yellin’s Instagram. Here you’ll find bite-size information from News Not Noise. Yellin founded the media brand to get you the information you need—without the accompanying panic attack. It’s geared toward women under 50 who are tired of all the “anger and negativity.” She separates the news from the hysteria and breaks it down so it’s simple to understand, using empathy in place of fear-mongering.

“I came to this because I was in the news forever, and it always felt to me like a lot of these panel discussions were like joining a dinner party 10 minutes after it started,” Yellin says. “You’re like, ‘What’s that word mean? Who’s that person?’ And it’s just this yelling and fighting, and it turns people off. And I would go to these events, and women especially would say, ‘I can’t listen to it.’”

There’s a sense of freedom in running her own news stream, but she also has to deal with the pressure of knowing the information is on her to determine and deliver. It can be isolating, but it’s also one of the best parts of her job. For Glamour’s Doing the Work column, Yellin talks about the exhilarating but terrifying feeling of working for yourself, as well as how she unwinds, her morning routine, and her biggest workplace challenge. 

Glamour: Do you have a morning routine? 

Jessica Yellin: My mornings are pretty consistent. Against the advice of every wellness expert, I start by doing a survey of the news. I check Twitter, I check my texts for tips, I check emails for any information directly from people, and then I just start going through the news sources. I decide what to post. I hopefully finish that around 9:00 or 9:30, and that’s when I break, and I exercise and meditate. I should try to flip it, but I never succeed, so I’ve accepted that this is how it is.

Are you a breakfast person?

Coffee, iced tea, hot tea, and water.

What was your first childhood dream job?

A fashion designer.

And what was your first actual job?

I made cappuccinos at [L.A. department store] Fred Segal as a teenager, and I was terrible at it.

Chic, though!

I mean, I could never get the milk-to-coffee ratio right for any customer.

How do you generally deal with rejection at work?

In my career, you’re faced with rejection all the time because you’re constantly pitching stories, getting no’s, and trying to chase sources. I always take rejection to heart. I do not understand the people who say that you’ve just got to let it slide off your back. But if it’s something important, a no often fortifies me to find another way.

What’s the best piece of career advice you’ve personally received? 

Take time to figure out what you want before going after it. And I know that sounds incredibly obvious and simple, but it’s really much more complicated than it sounds. My career advice used to be “Do what they tell you to do, and ask for what you want.” Because in my career it was always true—I said I want to be White House correspondent, and they’d say, “Well, that’s cute, but you’re in Tampa, so you’re going to cover this murder in Tampa.” But finally I said it enough, and I did enough good work along the way, that when there was an opening, they thought of me, and I got to the White House.